These ideas that this or that experience, or series of experiences, in/during childhood influencing sexual orientation in the manner/s being described, is, in my opinion, a whole lot of nonsense. This cannot be explained so simply with any reasonable hope of being near the truth. I'll give only one brief rationale. Notice that the "explanations" mostly place the blame on outside forces, seldom, if ever, speaking of the wickedness of the heart. You want to know what makes people tend toward, or be, attracted to their own gender? Look to the Word of God and see what you find it telling about the matter!
> @georgethe54th > Then Jesus says “go and sin no more.” Amen. My mind and heart goes out to those who are genetically prone to cancer, heart disease, etc. I seem to have inherited a bad liver but I look forward to the day Jesus will return and make all things new! But as Kenneth put it, > @kennethneal > speaking of the wickedness of the heart. Indeed. We must guard our hearts and choose against even our own predisposition.
> @georgethe54th > Yes I do. Wayne and Jeremy are Christian and homosexual. You are calling those two things incompatible. Wayne and Jeremy might disagree This makes no sense. I said "Christian Homosexual" is an oxymoron, and it is. To be a Christian is to follow the word of God, which clearly stats that homosexuality is an abomination. A Christian is someone that tries to be "Christ like", and I know the act of homosexuality is NOT Christlike. I don't know who Wayne and Jeremy are and I don't care, it has no relevance in my statement. Many people try and justify their wrong doings, that does not make it right.
No, it isn't. A Christian homosexual (of homosexual orientation) chooses not to participate in homosexual acts.
Indeed, Bryan, the term "Christian homosexual" most certainly is oxymoronic. It's like calling oneself a Christian thief, a Christian alcoholic, a Christian murderer. Never mind clarifying that one is oriented to these things but chooses not to participate in them. The terms are mutually exclusive. After all, as Christ said, it's what's on the inside that defiles, not what's on the outside. If one identifies as a Christian, then it is blasphemous to at the same time claim to be homosexual.
No, Kenneth, the sin, as Jesus put it, is to look at someone with lustful desires.
"Such WERE some of you", not "such ARE some of you". Different definitions lead to different conclusions. Are we all using the biblical "such" definition or the contemporary "orientation" definition. Clarity is important for agreement. Like the confusing and alienating contemporary terms such as African-American such cannot in essence be both. One is what one once was, the other what one now is. In the spiritual realm there is no dual identity
> @dougc > No, it isn't. A Christian homosexual (of homosexual orientation) chooses not to participate in homosexual acts. If they don't have sex, they their not homoSEXual.
> @dougc > No, it isn't. A Christian homosexual (of homosexual orientation) chooses not to participate in homosexual acts. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but you do not seem to know what it means to be a Christian. If you boldly call yourself a homosexual (or Christian homosexual), but you don't practice, you're still putting the word out there for all to see. If you are a Christian, you would know not to put those words together, so you don't confuse people, especially children. Homosexuality, or at least the act of, is an abomination, so you should not use that word in any way that might sound like it's being condoned. If you have a homosexual orientation but you don't do the act, and you're a Christian, then why would you still want to flaunt the word? Wouldn't you want to remove yourself as far away from that sin as you can? Do you think an alcoholic keeps booze in his reach? No, he removes himself as far as he can from it. I stole something once, back when I was young and stupid, but I haven't since then. I don't call myself a "Christian thief", I overca me it, I'm a Christian now, just Christian, not thief. How do you think Jesus would react to hearing "homosexual Christian"? I'm pretty sure he would not accept it. >No, Kenneth, the sin, as Jesus put it, is to look at someone with lustful desires. I'm not sure how to explain this, and maybe I'm wrong, but I see it this way. Jesus meant if you entertain the thought, if you don't dismiss it. If just thinking of it for a second is a sin, then how are we to stop sinning? You can't help the thought that pops in your mind, but you can choose to dismiss it. There is a difference between having the thought pop in your head, and entertaining the thought. Jesus had the same tendency to sin we have, if he saw a woman that was barely dressed, and the thought of lust never entered his mind, then he never was tempted and never overcame sin. If he never had to overcome these thoughts, then he never overcame sin, then his death on the cross means nothing. It's what you do with the thought when it enters your mind, do you dismiss it and put your mind on something else, or do you entertain the thought. I hope I put that the right way... And I'll finish with this, >A Christian homosexual (of homosexual orientation) chooses not to participate in homosexual acts. I think you're wrong again. There might be some that are like this, but that's not what I see in the news. The whole fight of homosexuals that want to come into the church are ones that practice homosexuality. These are the one I see in the news, proud of what they are and want us to accept them into the church AS homosexuals, not as EX-homosexuals.
> @dougyowell > One is what one once was, the other what one now is. In the spiritual realm there is no dual identity Very nice analogy.
PrayFastWordGo wrote, >We must guard our hearts… I always worry when a person expresses that sentiment. It sounds like the person doesn't understand that the heart is the main problem. I prefer to say, "We must subdue our hearts." Our hearts need to be arrested, cuffed and put behind bars, and then repaired while being held down with straps to an operating table.
Bryan-G wrote, >I don't know who Wayne and Jeremy are and I don't care… They are two people who comment here regularly and are celibate same sex attracted Seventh-day Adventists. >If you are a Christian, you would know not to put those words together, so you don't confuse people, especially children. Do you think it would be better for a father who is maintaining sobriety through faithful participation in Alcoholics Anonymous to tell there kids they are a recovering alcoholic or hide that from their family? >It's what you do with the thought when it enters your mind, do you dismiss it and put your mind on something else, or do you entertain the thought. This may worry you, but I completely agree with your thought in this regard. James 1:14 and 15 gives a picture of the whole torrid affair. "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full–grown, brings forth death." Put a bit more graphically "The desire residing in the person's back room pops around the corner of the mind dressed seductively and entices the person into a conversation which develops into something more intimate. Then, when she gets pregnant they don't get an abortion and eventually their lust child is born…" Now that whole process has to take more than a moment. That dalliance is what Jesus is talking about in the phrase "looks at a woman to lust after her." He isn't saying a person sins just because they are attracted the moment the vixen shows up in the front room.
Kenneth wrote, >It's like calling oneself…a Christian alcoholic… Kenneth, you are severely handicapped without a two room psychological model. There are obviously many happy and healthy Christian alcoholics.
Doug Y. asked, >Are we all using the biblical “such” definition or the contemporary “orientation” definition? Good question. While you figure that out, here's another question, If Paul wasn't attracted at all to sin after he moved from Romans 7 to 8, then why did he continue to call himself the chiefest of sinners?
> @georgethe54th > This may worry you actually it's more fear than worry :) > @georgethe54th > They are two people who comment here regularly and are celibate same sex attracted Seventh-day Adventists. But do they call themselves "Seventh-day Adventist" or "homosexual Seventh-day Adventist"? By calling yourself a homosexual Christian, you're putting out a message that you can be a Christian and have homosexual relations. You and I might know that the couple is celibate but everyone that does not know them will get the wrong message. Plus, there is just no reason or need to put those 2 words together, the only reason to put them together would be to stir things up, it shows "pride" of the homosexual part. > @georgethe54th > tell there kids they are a recovering alcoholic or hide that from their family? I see a point here, and I see a difference. drinking alcohol is not a sin. You can drink a little and be okay, a lot and it's wrong, but any homosexuality is wrong. Even still, would you actually call yourself an alcoholic Christian? Of course not, no one does, or would, and I'm sure there are many Christians that are recovering alcoholics.
i just thought i'd point out that there's no way david and jonathan could have been gay, as this sermon kind of left up in the air...we know that david's involvement with bathsheba followed him seeing her bathing nude from his roof-top, which suggests he felt sexual attraction to what he was looking at... trust me, a real gay man would never feel or respond in this way...most likely he'd avert his eyes out of revulsion...if he did decide to look, it would be out of clinical interest, and he'd feel nothing - absolutely nothing...
Bryan-G, meet my friend Jeremy.
> @georgethe54th > Bryan-G, meet my friend Jeremy Oh, okay. So I've been conversing with him for a while. I hope this isn't offensive to say, but now that I know what he's going though, I have a lot of respect for him, especially because of his opinions here.
> @bryan-g > but now that I know what he's going through bryan, i'm not going through anything anybody else isn't going through...all of us have been born with an orientation to sin, which means all of us have to die to self along one line or another if we want to be saved... i think people may be too worked up over the thought that celibacy is such a big deal...single heteros do it all the time...think of all the unmarried singles, widows, and widowers you know...think of all the married people for which sex has become a major bore, or for which some kind of health condition makes it impossible...jesus, paul, daniel, probably elijah - all kinds of people have been celibate...it's a message straight from the world that says we must be having sex in order to be happy...
> @jeremyvandieman > i think people may be too worked up over the thought that celibacy is such a big deal…single heteros do it all the time I never really thought about it, but yea. I was single until I was 40 years old. I was having so much fun mountain biking, skiing and doing other sports I never really cared, well, there were some nights where sex was on my mind, but all in all, I was happy being single.