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Kristal's ex-boyfriend being mugged.

roniponi
Tue, 25 Sep 2018 04:26:44 GMT

In the first episode, Kristal's ex-boyfriend said that Kristal predicted something bad was going to happen to him and her and there was nothing they could do about it . Subsequently 2 or 3 days later he was beaten very badly. Was there anymore discussion on the possibility of a connection between his beating and her disappearance (aside from her premonition)?

palefury
Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:13:08 GMT

Back to my random schizophrenia aside. Onset can be gradual or rapid. Onset is later in women (average 25 years old) than in men (average 18 years old). (29 is a bit on the later side of onset for a woman but not unheard of). There is a genetic component to schizophrenia so it does run in families (Krystals mum had schizophrenia). People with mental illness are more likely to use recreational drugs (often to self medicate) and are statistically more likely to become drug addicts (Krystals move to Crestone to 'get clean' and her association with people associated with drugs in Crestone). Early warning signs include: 1. Depression, social withdrawal (Krystal moved to a more remote town and no-one there seems to know her that well according to interviews) 2. Hostility or suspiciousness, extreme reaction to criticism (thought she might have been sexually assaulted, told Eli she had a premonition something bad would happen to both of them) 3. Deterioration of personal hygiene (her house was a bit of a mess but normal for her -so maybe not this one) 4. Flat, expressionl ess gaze (?) 5. Inability to cry or express joy or inappropriate laughter or crying (?) 6. Oversleeping or insomnia; forgetful, unable to concentrate (boyfriend said they had a fight because she would not go to sleep) 7. Odd or irrational statements; strange use of words or way of speaking (?) More info here https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/schizophrenia-signs-and-symptoms.htm This is a very sad story about a man that went missing after a lengthy descent into schizophrenia despite the fact that he had his parents and wife trying to look after him. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/behind-the-yellow-door-a-mans-mental-illness-worsens/2014/06/28/28bdfa9c-fbb5-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8c09aa811e77

Firewalk
Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:39:46 GMT

What are you trying to say?

palefury
Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:26:16 GMT

I am wondering if Krystal's disappearance could be related to the onset of a mental illness e.g. schizophenia.

palefury
Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:34:24 GMT

Just offering a possible alternative hypothesis to my theory above (comment 2) that could also explain some of the events described.

Firewalk
Thu, 18 Oct 2018 00:24:43 GMT

interesting...

kayw66
Thu, 18 Oct 2018 04:39:42 GMT

@palefury - A young man I used to know first told me about the going rumor around town - about Catfish being involved somehow. It was just something he said he heard and said that even HIS friends don't hang out with that crowd. He later turned out to be a pill and meth head who no longer lives in Crestone. He told me that when one of his friends tried to move here for a while (and is now deceased after moving back to Texas), that both he and Kristal "tripped hard" on LSD together (and he put great emphasis on the word "hard.") So I think it is entirely possible that at some point she might have gone too far with the hallucinogens and had a psychotic break. She possibly had a genetic predisposition for it if her mother was said to be schizophrenic. I met her and observed her for a bit once at a meditation group. One of my friends commented that she got the impression of mental illness from her ( perhaps some schizophrenia.) I honestly had a similar impression, but it wasn't full on, exactly. We spoke about this after she went missing, not before. James Rowe vanished from here and he seemed to be having some kind of a psychotic break. He was never found. Dogs were used and everything. He was last seen heading into the woods. I was told recently that Saguache County has a lot of missing person cases.

palefury
Thu, 18 Oct 2018 20:12:54 GMT

Thanks @kayw66 for the additional insight. Catfish and his crowd seem like a bunch of bad eggs. Maybe we need to think about his motive to kill her though. I am not sure I am convinced that acusing him of sexual assault is enough. There are rumours he has done that kind of thing before, but did not kill those women (presumably). There is always the default "he said, she said" argument, and if the woman is a known drug user and drugs were involved, he can always go with the "morning after regrets/we were both wasted and she was into it at the time" argument. Sexual assault is hard to prove - this is a major reason women dont report sexual assault as they are afraid people wont believe them or that they will go thru all the trauma of police/courts etc.. and the guy will get off anyway - there are so many accepted rape myths out there. It also seems that Krystal herself was unsure that she had been assaulted - so if she was not sure herself it would make it even harder to convince others/police. Maybe she was threatening to tell the police about some of his oth er illegal activies, and/or trying to blackmail him (he apparently comes from a wealthy family). But this does not explain why some have said that he seemed to have power over her (that she was cleaning his house etc...) This is what lead me to believe that Krystal was somehow indebted to Catfish. I was thinking a drug debt. But LSD is not really the most addictive thing is it? Where as drugs like Meth and Heroine, once addicted, people suffer awful withdrawal symptoms and will do (almost?) anything to get your next fix. Including criminal activity and becoming indepted to their drug dealer. On the other side. LSD can trigger psychosis. Also people that use recreational drugs are more likely to suffer mental illness. I am not sure if it is clear whether this is more that people with mental illness are attracted to drug use (self medicating) or that drug use triggers mental illness, probably a bit of both and depends on drug type. If Krystal experienced a sudden onset of psychosis or was having a bad trip on LSD (or Mescaline, Datura etc...) she could have taken off into the wilderness and had an accident or died of exposure or something. Until you have a body, or some kind of evidence of foul play, it is difficult to completely eliminate this possibility.

boardedup
Fri, 19 Oct 2018 03:56:08 GMT

I think if there was a debt, it almost certainly would have came from someone “fronting” her a decent dollar amount of work. Not so much as they were helping her get right daily for a prolonged period of time or whatever. Personally, whether she did have a mental health problem or not, I don’t think it figured into her disappearance (other than she may have been delusional thinking certain actions she took would achieve their desired outcomes) Attempting to blackmail (as has been suggested) someone or a group of people without any backing is pretty aggressive. Especially if these same people brought you into the “scene” and helped you out in the past.

saralogan
Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:43:28 GMT

@boardedup Is it just me that figured Kristal isn’t just being fronted for personal use? I feel like it’s pretty obvious that all of these kids deal and Catfish is their supplier/boss with all the $$$. How else do these people have any money? How do they afford rent, organic fruit and veggie burgers, tobacco and weed, and go have beers and meals at the brewery?😂 Unless I’m way off base or missed something it’s clear that nobody in this crew has a real job. There is no way Kristal made significant income doing Tarot readings in a town full of psychics and tarot readers.

kayw66
Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:19:32 GMT

As a single mom, she had assistance to some level and her rent was being partially paid. She only had to pay $50 a month. But yes, this is what happens in rural towns in this country. An underground drug economy can be created. Then things get out of hand and you start having more theft and break-ins. As well, there is usually some short-term or side work if you look for it or create it. Or they cycle in and out of sobriety and do better for a bit before a relapse. And there are people who just sponge off of the people trying to help them out around here, because they are so disabled by addiction, they can't get their lives together enough to go do something else. Sadly, women can turn to sexual favors for drugs. Sometimes I wonder how people keep getting by on certain substances. I watched this documentary called Oxyana about how Oceania, WV got ruined by pills. It's very good as a documentary in general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5xAu1csU_c

saralogan
Sun, 21 Oct 2018 18:48:29 GMT

Thanks for this detailed answer and I’ll check out this documentary for sure

boardedup
Tue, 23 Oct 2018 07:33:51 GMT

Sara- I’m in agreement with you for sure. It’s painfully obvious they’re moving weight. And you don’t move “product” to the other locals daily per say. You move stuff out of town for the most part, likely a bunch of “mail order” or “muleing” (driving) to Denver or Boulder or a college town in the sticks like Lincoln, Chicago certainly, prob also shooting down to I40 or something similar. See trustafarian guys get older, live in the woods and other than staying in “baller” hotels at shows in the winter (think NYE in NYC) or maybe a festival or two over the summer (if they can get away from their grow) they don’t get out much, don’t have the contacts anymore to move all their work. So they need younger girls/guys who have a different friend base, travel more, and meet different people. (The girls add the obvious bonus of younger party girls like older guys with $ and drugs so there’s that part to, think the so called manipulation talked about in the podcast) To really make money you need east coast custy’s. Drugs move north and east money goes south and west. Sa me as it ever was. Back east only has ports, so you get heroin and coke, but all your pyscodelics come from out west. Kristal seems to fit the profile about as perfectly as possible. And again it’s likely day in and day out they don’t get high on the same substances that they’re making MOST of their money off of. But yeah, I think your above post is absolutely spot on. Whether she was on again off again with the harder stuff really doesn’t effect what she would likely be moving for this crew, who almost certainly are hitting it from all angles. The same as every single group of kids like this every where in the country really.

saralogan
Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:04:22 GMT

Yes yes yes to all of this. My little sister dated one of these older dudes while in college, thank god she got smart and ended it right after graduation.

lmunson
Mon, 29 Oct 2018 04:29:05 GMT

To add couple of points with question at end. JMO but since Krystal was so freaked out from being held, assaulted and dosed by 🐈🐟, unlikely she’d trust acquiring drugs from any of that group possibly prevented her from doing drugs so close to sexual assault she felt happened during time she was dosed. In terms of mental illness, my Aunt now 62 has suffered with Bi-polar for many years refusing medication, her husband/my Uncle was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and died 6 months later. Although she somehow managed dealing with his cancer, which was horrible illness, almost immediately after his service she had complete break with reality. For what reason, we don’t know but she had him relocated to another cemetery not family plot the very next week. Twice she called LE on family members she accused of stealing from her, which was truly not the case. Her doctor explained to me and my Cousin that the stress from my Uncle’s death in conjunction with Bi-polar chemical imbalance had caused paranoid schizophrenic episode. She eventually did start and continues medication but that too leads to paranoia, at times thinking someone’s trying to poison her. Now, I don’t question Krystal’s assault prior to disappearance at all as I feel something horrible did occur but it’s possible that event could have triggered mental health episode, causing her to maybe act aggressive in accusations also vulnerable mentally and probably physically. Unfortunately, someone evil took advantage of and ultimately took her life. Do we know what medication she was taking or what was condition being treated? Again, JMHO.

boardedup
Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:33:07 GMT

There was no mention of her taking any medication for mental illness? No mention of her being treated for anything at all or under the continued care of a psychologist or therapist. Her biological mother was alleged to have schizophrenia, not her. (Although a poster on here did say she thought she might have some sort of a condition based off her and her friend’s first hand observations of her) Again, I’ll stand by what I said before in that I don’t think a mental break caused or led to her disappearance in any way at all. I’m also still not convinced about the sexual assault that you brought up again. I’ve yet to hear a compelling reason as to why a girl would voluntarily go right back to the house and the person who was alleged to have assaulted her a day or so prior. Not only going back, but going back alone, dropped off at his house in the woods, with no ride or way to leave lined up. Then to be seen doing his “chores” and drinking while she’s there none the less? I realize I sound like a broken record, but this seems completely unbelievable to me.

mntnsnow
Wed, 31 Oct 2018 17:30:56 GMT

The landlord mentioned Kristal's medication was still in her apartment. So she was being treated for something .

palefury
Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:07:09 GMT

Hi @boardedup. FYI- After listening to the last episode talking to Catfish I am less inclined to go with the psychosis theory. But with regard to schizophrenia in general - the peak onset of the disease is at around age 25 for women, and this onset can be sudden. So it is not unheard of that a person with no prior history of psychosis/schizophrenia could have their first episode at age 29. Some women even have their first episode late in life - there is another peak of schizophrenia onset for women post menopause (estrogen appears to have a protective effect). With regard to going back to catfish's house after the sexual assault - this is strange for me too.

boardedup
Sat, 03 Nov 2018 00:14:14 GMT

I think what we can assume is IF there was some sort of sexual assault Kristal didn’t believe catfish was involved in it, based on her actions. I’ll throw this out there also, Catfish ripping out his carpet or whatever has been alleged, even if that’s true, again I don’t think it shows any kind of guilt, at least as far as murder is concerned. More so he probably realized she was known to be at my house, I’m on her phone, I got god knows what that’s illegal inside my house, the cops are certainly coming, they’ll probably bring the drug dogs, they may or may not have a warrant already, regardless, it’s time to clean shit up. And I’m talking about controlled substance type shit. When I was (much) younger I was on the way to the casino with a friend, we got a phone call that an acquaintance’s house was being raided, things didn’t “look good.” We immediately turned off, rented a huge U haul, went back to the house and cleaned It out of everything, top to bottom had it spotless, I mean spotless and we’re on the road in about 90 minutes, and in another state less than 4 hours from getting the call. And that was just over work, nothing in the same stratesphere as rape/murder. Moral of the story, cleaning out the crib in no way equates to murder...

lexala
Sat, 03 Nov 2018 02:10:49 GMT

But it was stated in the last episode that Kristal said that she was assaulted by Catfish, Brian and a 3rd person unfamiliar to her. Payne played these snippets in between Catfish's interview.

lexala
Sat, 03 Nov 2018 03:56:28 GMT

I'm guessing that 3rd person could be "Landon" based on things we have heard he said, his night terrors, and his immersion deep into that cult which he seems to think will save him...

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